NIR SIG session transcript

KRNIC update: Ji-Young Lee


Hello everyone, my name is Ji-Young from KRNIC and I'll introduce KRNIC activities, and this is about system improvements of KRNIC.

So, first, I'd like to introduce KRNIC secondary reverse DNS. In APNIC 25, I briefly introduced this service. So, this year, we launched the secondary reverse DNS service in Korea. It is a secondary reverse DNS for small sized KRNIC member is who run single reverse DNSs. According to RFCs, it is recommended to run more than two DNSs, but small sized members, they don't have two main servers, sometimes they have just single ones, so we decided to have additional DNS for our members. So that the main thing is IMV 2 DNS, and as a result, 10 KRNIC members are using this service and it runs 201 reversals. And the main features are, it is valid for only one year, so they should build their own secondary DNS within one year, and this DNS is used for only for reverse DNS.

This is a procedure of secondary DNS service. Before they use KRNIC DNS, they have to submit a request for secondary DNS service. Then KRNIC staff check the request form and approves it. Then, from that date, they can freely add or delete reversal main in KRNIC secondary DNS, so this shows how they can add reverse domain in DNS, so first, they have to set their DNS to allow zone transfer between primary DNS and secondary DNS. After finishing configuration of their DNS, they can request for reverse delegation and in the request form, they have to set their secondary DNS as IMV 2 Then KRNIC RMS checks the primary DNS and sees if the reconfiguration is OK.

If it is OK, RMS up dates the file for the secondary DNS and secondary DNS will load this. Then the zone transfer between primary and secondary occurs and both of them can serve DNS services. And this is valid for, as I said, this is valid for one year. This is to encourage our members to build additional DNS in the separate network.

And from this work, I came to know two things. One is, KRNIC members don't know how to set primary and secondary DNS relationships. They're business guys so they don't have a lot of knowledge about systems or DNS. Usually they hire people to configure their DNSs, or they don't have clear ideas. So when KRNIC approved the request for the second DNS service, we send to our member, a guideline regarding how to configure their DNSs. So, this is a snapshot. The left one is for bind user and the right one is for Windows users. So, after we provide those guidelines, they felt easier to configure their DNSs. And the second one is, KRNIC network operators, then don't like to add additional DNS in KRNIC network, because they worry about the DDoS attack aimed at DNS, so they denied to install DNS in our networks, so we added additional lease lines from our member ISP and built the DNS in a separate network.

And the second one is, XML based DNS web service. As you know, APNIC developed new XML interface for updating their reverse DNS record, so we developed our new client program to update our reverse DNS. So, the format has also been changed. In the old system, we had a format which looks like a bind text file, so text based. But in the new system, it is XML based, so we have to create an XML object, and it has more attributes. For example, IP Version authority, or technical contact or administrative contact. So we are expecting instant feed back from the APNIC server and faster DNS publication.

And as we have several changes, our monitoring system for the reverse domain is needed. So far, we didn't have monitoring system for reverse domain. Of course, we had a monitoring system for KRNIC DNS, but it was not dedicated to reverse domain, so these pictures are snapshots for KRNIC, current KRNIC monitoring system. So the left one shows the overall traffic in KRNIC DNSs, and the right one shows the top ten in DNSs, so if there are any problems, usually KRNIC DNS operators gave us feedback using two factors, but this year, we will build our own monitoring system for reverse DNS so it has more features, so it will monitor DNS in delegation path. For example, APNIC DNS, KRNIC DNS, and sometimes ARIN or other RIR's DNS, and it will listen to the situation of each DNS and each reverse domain. So, we are expecting more stability from our DNS management.

That's it. Thank you.


Thank you. That was very interesting. The earlier part about the secondary DNS, I recall you introduced in the last APNIC meeting as well but it was much more detailed, and it was good to know. Do you have any questions about what Ji-Young has presented. Sorry, Randy, you have to come up here. This is the only mic.


Randy Bush, IIJ. I think it's really nice to see innovative service. At the end of the year, you know they go, what do I do? Maybe during that year, you can provide service to connect them with each other, so one can provide secondary for the other exchange like we used to do in the old Internet. Or something to try to make something where they can, you know move forward and help each other and build DNS structure, because I think it is very good that you do it, but also you say you have one year to grow up. But maybe you could teach them a little how to grow up.


Oh, it's a really good idea, and KRNIC usually pushes our members to have two DNSs. Yes? Yes, two DNSs, but we want our members to have two DNSs in separate networks, but they think it's expensive, so they usually build two DNSs in the same network, so it is not safe. So, that's why we started to provide those kinds of services.


I understand and agree, that the RFC 21/82, I wrote it!


So, that is a really good idea.


Thank you for the good suggestion. Maybe that would be useful for other NIRs to consider as well. Anything else from the floor? If not, then we'll move on to the third presenter.


So, welcome to NIR SIG, and I recognize some newcomers to the SIG, so just to introduce what we are going to do in this SIG in general, we discuss about what activities NIRs are doing in general, and exchange information about what common issues we have or new projects that we have. And the agenda for NIR SIG today is that we first have co-chair election. Well, we currently have David Chen from TWNIC as our co-chair who has been helping us, but his term has finished and so it's time for the election.

And we have three updates from three NIRs. First the CNNIC update. The second is KRNIC update, and the last, it is not exactly an NIR, but there is the working group called Policy Working Group that facilitates our policy development process in Japan, and there will be an introduction of how we develop policies in Japan from a member of our working group. So that's the agenda that we have today.

Is there anything else that you would like to add to the agenda? OK, so we'll proceed.

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SIG Co-chair election

First then, we will go with the election, and we only have one volunteer for this position, and unfortunately, Ching Hen-Ku from TWNIC, but he is unfortunately not able to make it in person. And, I think most NIRs know who he is, he's a regular attendee of the APNIC meeting, but just this time, he's preparing a summit in Taiwan in September, so he sent his apologies.

Well, this is his brief biography, that's him. And he's currently working and the at the IP department at the director of IP Department in TWNIC and he's a doctor researching - I don't know exactly what field, but then, in networking for several years, and he's an active participant in APNIC for four years. He's always been a regular attendee except for this one, and he's also been chairing what is called NIR workshop. It's an unofficial meeting that all NIRs gather and exchange operational information, mainly host master issues, and he's also in charge of IPv6 taskforce in the Asia-Pacific regions for two years, and he's been organizing v6 summits and v6 taskforce meetings and global IPv6 summit in Taiwan. So he's an expert in v6 promotion area, as well as IP address management in TWNIC. And I also have a speech from him. I am just going to read it on his behalf.

"I'm friendly and have good relationship and communication with APNIC and NIRs. TWNIC also has the good partnership with all NIRs. I'm very glad to have the chance to be the volunteer of NIR SIG co-chair. I hope you can support me to have the chance to serve you. Thank you all very much."

Well, seeing as he is the only volunteer, I would just like to ask for a show of hands on the people who - well yeah, maybe do the positive way. So, the people who support him, please raise your hands.

Yes, so I guess we have the majority vote and so we will have Ching Hen-Ku as the new co-chair of NIR SIG. Thank you.

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Introduction of PDP in Japan: Toshio Tachibana


This is Toshio Tachibana, I work for Policy-WG. Thank you for the giving me time for presentation. Thank you for chairs.

I will present a short presentation. I will introduce the policy development process in Japan. This is Policy Development Process in Japan. From the left side, the Internet resource user such as ISP for big company or global company. Right side is JPNIC. This is an NIR. The centre is OPF,OPF is Open Policy Forum. This is provided by Policy-WG.

We have two forums. First is IP users, that is a mailing list. Another one is an offline forum. That is done, JP Open Policy Meeting. This event provide twice per year.

What is OPM and Policy-WG? JPOPM organised by Policy-WG, I already told you. This is an offline meeting, part of Policy Development Process for the Japan community. We are Policy-WG. We are an independent group from JPNIC. We have six peoples, including the chairs who fully volunteered. This is a member of the Policy-WG. Sorry, six peoples and the chair is Fujisaki-San from NTT. Oh, over there?


We have the chairs over there? He's still chair.


And then, five members in this meeting. And five people members and the one chair. All members has experience for ISP engineers or Internet technology engineering. My previous time was in ISP.

This figure and the Policy Development Process, prospective from the JPOPM meeting. Already, I told you, Open Policy Meeting, twice per year, between the APNIC meeting. And the left side is the APOPM, APOPM is APNIC 25 in Taipei. Then JPOPM, and JPOPM provides the feedback from the APOPM meeting to the Japanese community. And the result for the propose for the Japanese committee to APOPM, that information. Then, JPOPM relationship, the proposal from the Japanese community, discussion and then consensus, then last call. Last call IP-users mailing list and this is done by chairs and the group, Policy-WG members. If we can - we need to propose an escalation from Japan to AP region, we can coordinate our support to the proposal for this meeting such as the Policy SIG. We have some challenges this year.

First is remote participation. This is already done, JPOPM 14. Provide audio streaming and then jabber chat. We provide AP proposals translate to Japanese. It's done at JPOPM 14. Work with IP department of JPNIC, Izumi-San, strongly supports. And then we will change the new item into mailing list archive. Request from

the JP community peoples. Strongly request from the community in Japan. It's now planning by our team, such as evaluate hosting provider and tools and planning operation strategy.

And there is proposals from the Japan community to AP region. Already, this is the three proposal system from Japan to AP region. You already know about the three proposals. Two proposals is implemented. One proposal is abandoned. However, this proposal, moved to another community in the IETF.

This is the JPOPM 14 agenda - I'm sorry, this is only Japanese. And then figure out (I) is informational, (P) is proposal. It's all informational. Number 15 is a special discussion on the IPv4 address and how to redistribute them.

And a special item is our final item. JPOPM usually has a party, or a small party and a discussion about talking about a proposal and exchange informations. It's very comfortable and very enjoy.

This picture two weeks ago and a special meeting for JPOPM. We want to comment for the APOPM. Tomorrow's Policy SIGs, a proposal to Policy SIGs, and then some comment and some discussion, and already a lot of discussion and a lot of comment received from the Japanese community. Probably, we can provide comment for tomorrow's Policy SIG tomorrow from the NIR JPNIC, Izumi-San. That's all, thank you.

I'm sorry for my English is no good.



I'd like to thank you for the last presentation. Any questions from the floor? OK, Maemura-San.


Akinori Maemura for JPNIC. So, I'd like to supplement Toshio's presentation, thank you very much. And this is quite unique attempt in the JPNIC community to separate the JPNIC Secretariat and the community in quite a strict way.

Right now, the JPNIC Open Policy Meeting is just coordinated by the Policy-WG with the JPNIC Secretariat's assistance for some logistics to secure some room. But this JPOPM is quite independently led in initiative. So, that's something different from some other NIR's Open Policy Meeting, as well as APNIC Open Policy Meeting. So that's a supplemental comment.

And I'd like to extend this opportunity to appreciate for the coordination in Japan. Thank you very much.


Any other questions? OK. A chair has a question.


I have a question to everyone, other NIRs. How do you coordinate Policy proposals posted in the APNIC mailing list within your community? Do you usually just report the result or do you seek comments in advance? Or, you don't bother at all?


In Korea, we usually translate all the proposals and post on the website and try to get a comment. But I don't think participation is so long.


Yes, thank you, Billy for sharing KRNIC's situation. I understand, because with our case, we did a first attempt to do a face-to-face discussions about policy proposals at APNIC, but on the mailing list, we usually had really low traffic. Randy?


Randy Bush IIJ. I talk too much already! But, I'm going to offer to talk more. Which is, I'm chair for the moment of the APNIC Policy SIG, along with Jian, and if we can help you in the interface and as Izumi-San was saying, discussing things that are APNIC policy discussions, bringing them to your community. But of course, the problem is that your community or national communities speak the national language, and you know, what do you call somebody who can only speak one language - an American!


Hi, Wendy from CNNIC again. The question Izumi brought up about how we share the policy with our community, basically, in CNNIC, we have an unofficial group which we put them in a chat group, like QQ or MSN, which is unofficially, trying to get it officially on the website, but currently it's something unofficially, only within our members and ISPs. Not almost every single policy, but policy we think the most ISPs will be interested and that probably won't precipitate the ideas that are brought up and then release that proposal to those unofficial groups and then we don't get interrupted with that wisdom and they're just generally chatting and talking and generally we've got an idea which way they want to go which is not very official mailing list, but I think that's a way to let people talk freely and then they will give you true ideas. That's a little tip to share with the other RIRs, which it's not official, but we're trying to do better.


OK, that's an interesting trial. You know by making it unofficial, makes it easier for people to give inputs. Good.


I have a question for JPNIC. I fine that JPNIC do a very good job, and a lot of proposals in APNIC come from Japan. We want to do better, but we still find the ISPs not too much incentive to do that. Today, I found your policy committee come from like NTT, KDD, yes do a very good job. And you come from JPNIC, right? Yeah.

So I just want to know, why the community in Japan, they have the incentive to do that?


I think that's a good point. I don't know why! But, the policy coordination in the JPNIC community began when RSE 2015 was still there. At the other time, the IP user's mailing list, which is the open policy forum's online community is established and other times, JPNIC is just - JPNIC had a very small Secretariat with maybe five employees at the time. So everything needed to be done through the committee, which it just a branch group, and then right now, then the IP user's community was active from the period.

For your information, I was captured at the time for this field, and finally I joined the JPNIC Secretariat. Right now, the JPNIC Secretariat grew to have 30 employees there. But still, the committee is active and it is a miracle from the Secretariat's point of view, but I think that there is many thanks to the policy development. I hope I answered your question.


Can I add a little bit more on. As you mentioned we have a long history of OPM as well, but then we try to do a lot of outreach to our members. When we have our LIR meetings, just focusing, just restricted to LIRs, a little bit similar to AMM, but then it's more operational and then we introduce all these policy proposals which are being proposed and raise awareness, we also do collaboration with JANOG and operation communities and then we really tell them what's going on and raise awareness. So, I don't know if that is the direct reason, but then, maybe sort of helped in a way. No?


It's one word, it's the culture. You know, I work in the States, I've worked in Africa. Japan is a very funny place! And that's why I'm there. Our biggest competitor owns 31% of us. It is a cooperative society. It goes very far down. In research, the seven biggest ISPs - I'm half time a researcher, half OPS. Shared, per interface traffic data with each other cooperatively, for research so researchers could publish papers, understanding traffic statistics in growth, etc, etc. Throughout the industry, time after time after time, I run into cooperation is the base. I can't speak for any other Asian country because I haven't worked in Korea or something, but Japan is a very funny place and it's a good funny, or at least I like it!


So, I suppose we pretty much covered the agenda that is initially planned, unless there's anything else you would like to discuss? No? OK, so let me last do a quick update on the status of the proposal that was made in the last NIR SIG which was to revise the documentation on NIR's operational document and remove the part that describes operational details about reverse DNS.

The removal has been done and the consensus at the time is that it doesn't necessarily have to be done in this particular APNIC document, but it should be documented, the procedure itself should be documented in some way or the other and I've confirmed with the Secretariat that they're preparing this document at this stage and it's going to be ready soon. So we will keep you informed about the status of this document.


So now I will have an update from CNNIC.

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CNNIC update: Zhao Wei


OK, how long do I have? Hello everyone. Good afternoon. Zhao Wei from CNNIC. It's an honour to have a chance to update CNNIC, the IP allocation work that lately we have done to share some experience with the audience. I will keep it short and then the rest of time probably will be open for the questions.

First of all, there's the outline. First, I will give a brief numbers about our membership which is for updating, because we do this every year, and then there's a little introduction of our member meeting which took place in Chengdu, which is the area that just got the earthquake, sorry for that. Yeah, that's the latest one, and we do some training, some of it and updates in that meeting and probably something we want to share with the other NIRs and others who are interested. And also take that chance, we do a survey, an IPv6 survey. It is not a complicated one, but the aim of this survey is to get an idea of how people learned what's going on in the IP resource field. We will come back to that later in a bit more detail, and then I will introduce a bit of IPv6 promotion which has been done lately. Most of them with the Government and some improvements on that.

The last part will be the Internet in China. So far, people are aware...


People are aware that the facts are not only from the Internet but everything in China. So these parts will give everyone a rough idea what situation the Internet or network situation in China, and we help them. It is basically based on the work we have done for the past 11 years. We have done that since 1997.

First of all the membership centres, until now, CNNIC, we have 276 membership of all the tiers. That for the IPv4 allocation, we have done 180548/24 allocations, IPv4 allocations. That's all together, the accumulated one. For IPv6, we have done 21/32. Not too much, but people are still working on that. And for the membership distribution for the graph, we can see, sorry for the Chinese characters, I will read it through. For the biggest one which is over /10 is 0.7%, which roughly gives us two members on that level. And then the next level will be over /13 and below /10. That gives us around 1.9. Then the four will be /16 to /13. That gives us 19.8%. And the next one will be between /19 to /16. That's roughly 32.8%. And the lowest one will be the biggest one is 44.8%. Roughly around half of them. So that's how the membership distributes in our membership. The next slide is the membership growth of APNIC. We didn't do all the way back to 1997, because recently the membership growth would be faster than before, so we have done from 2000. Starting from 56 in 2000, and now we have 276. So we hang in there and we get lots of promotions and we talk with lots of potential members. Yeah, we are reaching high-end numbers probably by the end of this year, hopefully.

Then we can see the allocation growth of CNNIC. As I have said in the last slide, it is 180548. This roughly gives everyone an idea of how it grows from 1999 - only below 4,000 /24, and now it goes up to 180,000.

For the member meeting, we hold a member meeting once or twice a year, depending on the situation. We just finished our latest member meeting in April in Chengdu, and we invite quite a lot of our ISPs to share their experience in IPv6. That's one of our targets in this meeting.

Our topic in this meeting, we do the CNNIC annual report on our membership and our allocation to all the attendees, and also we talk about some hot topics, about IPv4 rolling out, how people prepare for that. What do they think about what they need to do for after IPv4 runs out? What do they need to do right now? For the IPv6 survey, we give them a few questions to take to find out how deeply they learn or how deeply they realize that the situation is serious.

The last part is a routine part as well - we do our member training because we have new members, we got some members who probably don't really get some of the queries and that part is for them. Yeah. A little picture shows the attendees at this meeting. It was small, because we got a lot of members attending this meeting.

Achievements - first of all, we do the meeting training, we do the query training, we do the database training, we do the IP training. And for the open policy, actually, it is not open policy, it is just the hot topic, talking, sharing seminar. What we do is, people are talking about their experiences about IPv4, how eager or what the situation is in IPv4, and what they think about if we cannot get any piece of IPv4, what are they going to do?

For the IPv6 update, we have our special guest to do the process of IPv6 technique in China, and he also introduced the IPv6 equipments to get those technicians to get more experience of the hardware. And the bottom, the last will be, we share some common questions, common problems with our members on their queries that happens probably every day. With answers, we find out that someone else asks the same question the next day. So we take this chance to solve those problems.

OK, the IPv6 survey, we took this chance to give our members a few questions to ask, to answer. We had just about 100 attendees and we had 54 survey feedback. Actually, the feedback was more than 54, but some members send out more than one attendees, so most of the time, those two people will get the same answer so we tick that out so the feedback answers will be 54. So the statistics are on the board here. We have 80% of them who realised that IPv4 is in exhaustion, and that will bring them negative effects. And putting research into the deployment of the solution. In that part, most of them are doing IT because of IPv6. But they do realise that IT cannot solve all the problems and they are facing to deploy IPv6 and some other solutions. 30% would provide IPv6 surveys within six months to one year. That is a positive member result we expect, because from those 21 slides, 32 IPv6 allocations, we didn't expect that high number of 30%. But there is a reason, because most of the members who attend our meetings are either small or medium or large members, so they tend to get early deployment of IPv6. That's why we got a higher number on that if we got all our small members to answer those questions. Probably the percentage would drop down - I don't know where it goes, but we would drop it down.

The key issue of the IPv4, from v4 to v6, or after v4 will be the IPv6 will not be compatible. That's the biggest problem so far concerned by the ISPs and the investment, because for the small and the medium ISPs, they either cannot afford the investment right now, or they cannot afford investment without any profit.

The main motivation, that's really where everyone realises with the egg and the chicken, even our ISPs, without egg, we don't have chicken, without the chicken, we don't have eggs. Without end- users, we do not provide the services, but with other services and how the end-user is going to use the services. They're the kind of things we're going to try to find a way to work.

So those are the parts of the feedback from that survey. That led us to get a little bit deeper understanding of what is the situation for our members about those IPv6 deployment.

IPv6 promotion, we have done lately a few promotions. Actually not to our members or our end-user, because we realise without profiles, it is harder to get lots of people to dash in this water. So what we have done is we have reported to the Government organisation about the situation, let them learn, and alert them we should do something on this to get our network or Internet to move forward. Then we submitted our report to the China Government of some suggestions on the emigration from IPv4 to IPv6, and they took the report and so far, for my information, they're working on that. But, I don't have further information in what way they're going to deploy, or what way they're going to put effort in it. We're still working on that.

We have been participating in the CNGI, the China Next Generation Internet. That's a project with our staff. We have a group called the Next Generation Group. They are working on this project, not only this project, also some other projects on the Next Generation networks. They participate in the CNGI. There's a few results or achievements they are got for this project.

First of all, for the deployment and the system platform - I'll just read them through because I got these from the department. They have a registration demonstration system over IPv6. We have the registration demonstration system of the international domain name, registration demonstration over IPv6. And we have new addressing technology in IPv6 network under the comprehensive test platform.

They also do a few reports on that project. First of all, they have the report on the importance to recognize the IPv6 exhaustion and promote actively to the IPv6 network. And then they have a proposal for the operators, IPv6 address management and planning strategy. They report on IPv6 DNS server research and testing report. And lastly, they have the technical report for the authoritative server running. Those are the results they achieved for the CNGI project. And then the part we were talking about with the Internet in China, we have done this statistic work since 1997. The CNNIC has erected them. We have the responsibility to carry on the statistic work, statistic survey on the domestic Internet development and market research. This report has been widely used by the Government organization and commercial organizations.

The latest version is from 2007-2008, three versions. The latest one is on July, is released on July 2008. If you log on that link, you will be able to go through all the versions of the statistics surveys, from the first version to the latest version. People interested, you can check that out.

I have picked up a few points that probably can demonstrate the part of the survey. First of all, our next season is reaching 253 million. The computer hosts are 84.7 million. The website actually, nearly 2 million, and the international outline band wave, we have 493729 megabytes per second. So those probably from a certain angle can tell how the Chinese Internet, sorry, how the Internet in China developed, how fast we developed our local network and give everybody an idea. So that will be all. It didn't take too long!

OK, are we open for the questions?


Thank you, so do you have any questions from the floor about the CNNIC update? We only have the microphone here, so would you mind coming all the way up.


Akinori Maemura from JPNIC. I was so impressed with the numbers. 30% of the ISPs are going to provide IPv6 service. 30% is quite a big number. Have you any analysis on the number with the 30%?


OK, I can give you the details later on, but as I introduced, those 30% is based on this 54 feedback. And all the members who attended our meeting, not all, but most of the members who attend our meeting will be the biggest ones, the largest ones because they participate more. They do care more about what's going on outside of the China world. So, those people going to the deployment of IPv6 earlier than the smaller one, that's why the member is higher than average. But considering that we have 276 members, only 54 came back. So 30% of those 54, actually only like 15 or 16. So that's actually not a huge member. But only from the feedback, it is quite a positive number.


Yes, still, kind of 10% of something from the entire number of the members?


I can't say that, because those members who come up are the big members, the ISPs. So for the smaller one, they probably don't even think about moving to IPv6, or they're probably thinking about getting more customer and end-users, so probably most of the people who didn't participate or didn't come would never think about that. So the membership of those would probably jump even lower than 10%. I cannot give that number to you.


Well, the number is still significant. I am really looking forward to seeing one year after that.


Me too.


Thank you very much.




Hi, my name is Sylvia from Indonesia. I have questions regarding conducting a survey. Knowing that you have 200-plus members, and then the population seems like a big sized population, so when you conduct a survey, do you conduct the survey through your members or do you work together with your Government and do you use the Government statistics? Because we're having difficulties in conducting surveys in our country. What's the method that you're using in your survey?


We have a department actually doing the survey for us. It is about a seven staff department. Most of the work they do - look, I can give you a rough idea of that. Actually, they probably have a bit of association with the Government, but most of the time, they are going through the details by themselves, they're making phone calls, they do the research themselves, they roughly - actually, they don't only do the focus group, they go across to regional areas. If you look and link to that website, you can see we divide all these details in different sections and the numbers, the data that you will get is more detailed than the numbers I give you. You can get the numbers of who is in what kind of age people are looking at the Internet most, and what kind of people are using the mobile Internet, and what is the percentage of that. So, actually, our department, those staff do the details for themselves. Thank you.


And regarding the earlier point that was raised, the question about the high percentage of members, CNNIC members trying to deploy IPv6, I would be interested to hear if the situation in other NIRs, if you have the figures or it doesn't necessarily have to be the figures, or maybe rough ideas. Do you think other NIRs can share this . PRESENTER: I don't know how much data can support it, but basically I was the board member of the TWNIC during the last Board meeting, because in the Board meeting, basically we have the seven largest ISP in our board, and I asked them do we have any possibility of having, about 1% to 5% of the Internet users running on IPv6. And the biggest ISP telco told me, sorry, it's impossible, they can not do that. They had difficulty. They need to see exactly the needs so that they can respond, but I do know that they have some internal operations, but they're not open for the outside yet. And so I say, even 1%, you cannot do it. They kind of smiled.


Thank you.


OK, Billy from Korea, KRNIC. To give you the percentage of the possibility of providing IPv6 service by our members in Korea, now, we've got, ISPs, 30% of our members on the IPv6 allocation from APNIC, that's 70% of them out of 100 members. And like was pointed out, I don't think that they're willing to embrace this service, but they are planning inside, the question is going on if there's any need. But anyway, I think they are considering the 30% ISP will consider to IPv6 services in the future. But we don't know when they're planning.


One more update for the IPv6 network in Taiwan. As I know, there is great computing in Taiwan. And I think right now, they might be the biggest IPv6 user because they have a convention to the European cert, so they are doing the chain and running the operations, the daily operations. But the issue is, it might be that for some time, we need to be thinking about that, because although the v6 is not connected, so they so some separate networks that they're working in. So I know that the Academia Basilica, the v6 network can come back to Japan and connect to the Hong Kong and also some other places. But the issue is, even in Taiwan, some of the v6 networking is not really working well.


Thank you, I think that was a very interesting issue to be raised. So, even if you deploy v6, if you can't really interconnect with other v6 networks within your country, it's really difficult to get it going. I think that's an interesting issue to be raised.


Akinori Maemura from JPNIC. I would just like to give you a quick update for the deployment of the IPv6. As Izumi presented in yesterday's session, the IPv6 session, we in Japan, we are now having cooperative absolute for the IPv6, IPv4 depreciation across the whole Internet bodies. Through such activities, I think that the most significant action is having the access network provided to provide the IPv6 service.

In Japan's case, the ISP, pretty much, we rely on the access network provider, which is usually NTT East and West which are providing the local loops, you know the last section. And they provide access, IP access networks to the ISP, which connects the ISP and the customer. Maybe more than 80% or 90% of ISPs rely on such access network providers. Then, NTT East and West are concentrating keenly about preparing the IPv6 access network to the ISP and interface specification would be fixed within this year. And if their access network provider are there already, that means that more than 80% of the ISP is ready in terms of the access network to the IPv6. I think that would be, I think that would bring us a big progress for the readiness of the IPv6.


I probably want to put something on top of those numbers I gave out. All the audience and the engineers participating in the IT meeting, we all understand that so far, the IPv6 has not been successfully used as it is commercially used, even if they have recently, say the day before on Monday, there's a training on the IPv6 deployment. And I have noticed that in France, where the people in France do a marvellous job, they have excellent experience, but most of the services they provide is for the Internet success. So what they do is you have backbone. You router support it and then the rest won't be so difficult. But if you won't put the IPv6 in every application, that would take ages, personally I don't know how long that would take, so basically those numbers or the number I give out of the ISPs which respond from China, our members will be, they're going to get the support for IPv6.

They're going to experiment on the IPv6 access to get ready when the v4 is not there any more. So probably, that's the motivation for them to get the IPv6 surveys. Actually, that's just the Internet services, so that could help us to understand why those numbers are so high, because people probably don't really notice that in China, the fast growing of the Internet, the fast growing of the networks and the fast growing of all the computers and the host, so people are eager to get addresses, to get their networks. That's why they have to deploy v6. But it is not simple yet.


Thank you for the additional information. So they have the mind to be prepared for the world after IPv4 exhaustion which is why the v6 planned deployment rate is quite high. Thank you very much for an interesting presentation.


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